Welcome Back - Season 6: Tipping, Solo Dining and Experiential Dining

Hello, hello! Season six kicks off with Karey and Justin talking the following:

Tipping:
Yay or nay - when is ok, when is too much?

Solo Dining:
Do you enjoy going out to eat by yourself? 

Experiential Dining:
What are your thoughts on a dinner with a...show? 

Link to IG - podcast - https://www.instagram.com/foodserviceforthought/

Justin IG - https://www.instagram.com/justinodfw/

FH&W IG - https://www.instagram.com/fhwinc/


Produced by FH&W

Forbes Hever & Wallace, Inc. produces the Foodservice for Thought podcast. 

Please rate, follow and share the podcast. Help us introduce the characters and characteristics of the foodservice / restaurant industry to others.

Forbes Hever & Wallace, Inc. produces the Foodservice for Thought podcast.

Please rate, follow and share the podcast. Help us introduce the characters and characteristics of the foodservice / restaurant industry to others.

Transcript

All right, Carrie, it's time for us to add our two cents into the tipping conversation
Hello, everyone, welcome back to season six of the food service for thought Podcast, the podcast connecting the foodservice industry. Carrie, welcome back from the beyond. How are you? I'm great. This is this has been a long time coming.
It has been yes, many moons have passed. And I am glad that we are back in the saddle. And we're not going to waste any time we're jumping right into it. And we're talking about something that has been on the minds and big accounts of many people, legions of people over the last year or so. And that is the whole tipping conversation. And there is a lot to say, a lot of hot opinions. And I want to know, if we have to start this somewhere, I think it's important to put a disclaimer on it that the overwhelming majority of the time, we should not be placing any of our frustrations or blame or anything on the actual person that is perhaps the front facing person for guarding the tipping. Yeah. Do you agree with us? I totally agree with that. Yeah, I think the system is what the system is. And we'll talk about that today. But you're right. I mean, I don't think a lot of people understand how
servers or gig workers or what have you are paid and that they depend on tips for their income. That's that's not just an added perk, it's their income.
Well, yes. And the typical scenario is, you know, somebody goes in to grab a cup cup of coffee, and they walk up to the counter, and they say, Hey, can I have a medium latte? And sure, it's $4. And then they flip the old screen around and says, Just can ask you a few questions. Just gonna ask you a few questions. Just a couple, just a few questions. And you know what the questions are? Yeah. And they are not? What is your birthday? And what is your favorite color? They are? Would you like to tip 20% 50% 90%? Or give us all your money? It has changed? You know, when it used to be 1520 22 or something, and then custom in a lot of places, and now, it's 1820 22 or Custom? Yeah, maybe it's 25? I think I might have seen 25 on a couple of places. Yeah. Which is tricky. Justin, when you're ordering a counter service, like for a coffee or something? You're you're like, yikes, because that wasn't the norm.
No, no. And I think and I might have this wrong, but to my understanding a lot of the the tipping in scenarios like that, were usually because whether it was a coffee shop, or an ice cream shop or something like that, and more of the counter service was it was typically younger people that were maybe high school students working. So the idea was, yeah, you know, hey, I've got some extra change from this cash transaction, remember cash, you know, we'll throw it in the tip jar, that kind of thing. But I have a real problem with this. And I used to work in the foodservice industry as far as on the culinary side, we work in the industry. As far as on the equipment side, we deal with a lot of end users that are restaurants and coffee shops, and all those kinds of places that have those people. But that absolutely drives me nuts about that. And what I want to say, and I know that there's more to the story, but what I want to say is, it's not my responsibility to pay your staff. So you're not frustrated that they've got this set up, that the money's going to the servers, the baristas or what have you, the frustration is that the the corporations or companies aren't paying a decent wage and they're abdicating or pushing the the expense to us to pay their employees. Yes, and I know there's more to the story to that. So I don't want to have a blanket statement. But that really bothers me that, because then what you just said earlier was, well, all these people aren't paid appropriately. I agree. And they should get paid appropriately because it's very difficult work. And it's the work that no one wants to do. Because on a Saturday, you want to be the one getting the coffee, not making the coffee. So we need to those people need to be paid appropriately. But then for me to have the expectation of tacking on an extra couple to $3 for a coffee. You know what the hey, yeah, I remember for a little bit a couple of years ago where some restaurants were doing this thing where they don't they don't accept gratuity.
He's, but they were paying their servers and their employees at a higher rate. So probably not a living wage, but that wasn't loved by servers, because they were making more money with the tips. In a lot of places, you know, it's pretty complex issue. But you're right.
You know, you go to a restaurant, especially a sit down restaurant, but any restaurant, you go to a restaurant, they've done the grocery shopping for you, they gave you some options, what do you want, you get to pick a lot of places, we'll make it how you want. And, and then we're going to bring it to you, and we're going to do the dishes to, we're going to do all that, you know.
And, and
I'm happy to pay for that, especially I'm in a nice restaurant, generally speaking, the server's are going to be well informed about the food, they, you know, they're kind of actors, little bit, making an experience for you. But yeah, I'm troubled, too.
When I go to a restaurant, and depending on the level of work that's gone into the food also, and then they want to tip and I mean, how long before like, Chick fil A, or McDonald's or something's gonna want to do this, you know, they're, they're paying their people, you know, what you get when you go work there?
Yep. And maybe you're right, because with the restaurant thing, totally understanding, especially if I'm a server at a nicer restaurant, and I have, you know, parties of six or eight or 10, there's an opportunity there to make a good amount of additional money. So you don't want to take that away from someone. And I think maybe a place to start to address it would be more of the counter service type places. Yeah. Where a place like a, you know, a coffee chain, or an ice cream chain or something like that, that there shouldn't be the expectation to tip as part of supplementing that employee. So the employee should be able to go to work knowing that if I do my job, I should get paid an appropriate wage. For that, well, there's no proof that they're getting that they're sharing that full amount with the, with the employees as well. I mean, it's I don't know that it's legal or not, but I have heard of people, you know, we have young people that we get to interact with, that are still working those positions and and they're not working, spoken, spoken like an old person, we get to still talk to young people sometimes after the young folk.
What I mean is, hopefully you get to a certain point, and you're not having to work at counter service anymore, but it is a good I think it's a good it's a good starting point, you really learn a lot of life lessons and a lot about compromise and resilience. And and
it's all because it's all because someone wants to wants their cup of coffee or because nobody would want to tip you damage.
Yeah, well, we clearly didn't solve that. I did it a little bit of research before this, and where did tipping start and where did tipping come from? And I mean, it does have the most
benevolent of originations it is it is
you know, it kind of starts in the
post reconstruction error after slavery that's where it began and so I mean, I guess the archaic argument can be made some employees are you know, if we're paying them what you know, what is what is what is the server making it a chain that you know, sells salads and burgers and stuff? Less than six bucks. So I would say for most counter service establishments, so think fast food type, coffee shop type ice cream place type.
They're making around anywhere from 13 to $16 an hour
that's an average I bet that's not happening and Yeah, who knows? No, not Texas. It varies state to state, but somewhere in that range ish to give you a ballpark I will tell you in Johnson City, Texas, the Dairy Queen was starting people out at $16 an hour I don't know if that's true anymore. But well hot that is Yeah, I mean, I mean, I will tip when they hold the blizzard upside down and they just hold it there for you. And you're just like what's what's gonna happen your memory mesmerized by it? Yeah. Yeah. So there you go. We haven't solved it, Justin. No, but I think a good place to, to start and and to really take a look at it is at those type of places to make sure that the people are getting paid what you think is an appropriate wage, and the tipping can be
Would it kind of was historically for us in our generations, which was it wasn't just an additional sort of a gratuity versus an expectation. Yeah.
So there it is hard, hard hitting kickoff to the episode where we talked about it, we complained about it, and then we did not fit not
perfectly. But next is something we don't have to fix. It's something we can discuss, because I love this, even though I haven't done it a long time. And I want to know what your opinion is on this. And this is the idea of solo dining, not Han Solo dining, we're not talking about Star Wars here to solo dining, going out to a restaurant by yourself, what do you love about it? I'm curious.
Well, so I think it's, um, it's a little bit different now that I work from home more, but that is kind of when you can go out to eat by yourself. And, to me, it's kind of like a safe space, or in a little bit of an escape where I can be somewhere. No one's gonna bother me.
I don't have to answer my phone. I don't have to do whatever. And I can just kind of be with my thoughts or be with whatever podcast I'm listening to thoughts. And I kind of liked that experience of of being able to just kind of disconnect for a little bit. In that makes sense. So you'll, you'll put in your earbuds and listen to something. Yeah, yep, I'll usually listen to a podcast or something like that. And, you know, have my one shirt or whatever. And again, I don't do it very often now. But I also love doing this going to see if you do. I used to love going to movies by myself, and just go there. And I'm just there experiencing the movie by myself.
And that was always fun. I always enjoyed that I enjoy also going with other people, but I enjoy going by myself. So I don't know, do you do this? Have you been out to eat a whole bunch by yourself? And do you like it? Do you just like I used to more.
I used to love so on the weekends, I'd walk a couple of miles. It's probably a mile and a half from the house to this little Mexican restaurant. And that's when I would do my journaling on the weekends. You know, apparently I'm supposed to work on weekdays. But anyway, on the weekends, and I really liked that. I did like doing that. And we kind of had a system where you know, they'd bring me water, but then just let me be there for a bit. And, you know, I didn't, I didn't if it was super busy, I believe. But otherwise, there's usually it was fine for me to sit there for an extra half hour or whatever. I did like that a lot. I like that a lot. But I don't do it much now. And I don't think I've ever been to a movie by myself. My daughter loves to do that as well. She loves to go to movies by herself. And I guess I need to try it. I need to try it. But to eat out.
I'll do it at lunch.
But not at dinner. Yeah, I think it's much more acceptable. Unless I'm traveling.
Yeah.
When I was when I was working in outside sales back in Dallas, I would there were a couple of places that I would stop and go to that for lunch if I was out and about like eat Caesar salad or something like that. And sometimes I would pull up and there would be like eight cars in the parking lot. And every person was in the car eating. Yeah, absolutely. They're just by themselves. Yeah. Like, imagine that for sure. Yes. Yeah, I almost need to, like keep a book with me or my journal. Because I'd love to write, you know, and that that be something I've done that now, when I travel for work. Most of the time, I'm too tired anymore. But what I used to love to do is is go take my laptop and you know, when you've only got one screen, nobody, there's no interruptions, you can knock out a bunch of work. And that's kind of fun. And I didn't mind sitting at a bar working on on the laptop or wherever, you know, whatever. It's kind of convenient to a hotel, but nowadays, nowadays, Justin, you don't you whippersnappers
got all this meal delivery. So sometimes I just have a salad delivered to the hotel room and I work there
that I did that the last time I traveled back to Dallas one night I had I ordered a salad or something, had it delivered to the hotel, sat in the lobby, ordered myself a little bourbon. And I sat there with my laptop and knocked out some work and I was like that's that's pretty cool. That's a nice, you know, couldn't do it every night. You know, I miss my family. But that was cool to do when you travel. Yeah. Yeah, I mean especially if you're if you're married and you have young youngsters at home. Can I say that the Utes if you get Utes at Mount
it's nice. It is not well, I think what I don't know if you've experienced this you said the Tex Mex place but by
When you kind of go there, and the vibe is sort of matches, you're where you're at, yes, where it's just kind of mellow and chill and there's, there's you know, activity and there's some, some ambiance to it. It's not just like a dead silent place, but it's not like just hopping or it's not some weird aura or vibe or whatever, that's really nice when there's a little bit, but you just kind of can do your thing. And, and that's there in the background. And then if you want to stick your get your head above water for a few minutes to kind of enjoy that atmosphere, it's there. But it's not like it's not over overtaking you and preventing you from just sort of enjoying enjoying the experience. Yeah, you know, one thing about solo dining that is irksome to me is when you go in there, like just you just one kind of thing, you know, like, sometimes I'm gonna do I mean, what do you mean, there's all these people here with me. Now, you can't see these people, me and everybody inside my head.
One thing that I think is interesting about that is, so what you said before about, like the meal delivery, and there's so many people that do that, or they you know, get groceries and cook food at home, which is what we try to do a lot of times, which is good, you're trying to save money and have home cooked meals. Yeah. But the more time people now we're spending at home, the less experiences we are having out in the real world. And I think that creates, that creates some anxiety, and that creates, you know, and then all of a sudden, like you go out in the real world, and you're like, I don't know how to act, I'm uncomfortable. Because I don't do this very often. So if you kind of go out to eat by yourself, and you have places that are a little bit more on the mellow side, or whatever it matches your vibe or whatever, I think that's a good way to kind of ease yourself back into being out in society. Because it's hard to make new memories and have new experiences and have new perspective on things. If you're not experiencing anything outside of that. That's a really good point. And I think coupled with how much time people are on social media, whatever that looks like to you know, it can be Tik Tok, or Instagram or Facebook or, or, or YouTube scrolling, you know, and and I recently heard I have no idea if this is true. I haven't substantiated this at all that kids here comes factcheck care commons that kids will today's kids will spend about 60% of their lifetime on phones, or gaming, or they're on a screen of some sort. Yes, 60%.
Something else that's really not good news about what you just talked about is the fact that AI now is duplicating a lot of outdoor parks, state parks, areas, things of that nature, so that you can you experience them on the tablet, instead of going to do it.
I went to Yellowstone last summer. Yeah. Yeah.
So I mean, that's great if you're somebody you know, wheelchair bound or something like that, or you don't have the funds or what have you. But yeah,
I, I'm going to now go to a movie, go eat out, maybe make a date with myself to go eat out on my own more. Because you're right. It's not just the experience of eating, it's everything interacting with the people just getting out of your, your drum life.
Yet well, and I've noticed that is now I work remotely from Arizona. And so I'm home all day. And I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I can feel it negatively impacting me. Because I have minimal interaction Yeah, with face to face with people and, you know, wake up in the morning and our daughter, she's five, five and a half. And so, you know, there's, there's that level of conversation. And it's me and my wife, you know, playing defense against that in the morning. And we're all scrambling to get out the door and get to work, and get our daughter to school. And then I'm at work all day, and I'm talking to people either video or on the phone. But that's not face to face interaction. And then I go to pick up our daughter from school at the end of the day. And then it's the same level of conversation and then our what my wife gets home and then you know, it's the family conversation about that. And then it's nine o'clock, yeah, for my wife and I can talk and then half the time it's like, hey, let's just watch a show. Yeah. And then we get ready for bed and then like you don't realize that but that can string on for weeks and months where that that is a huge portion of your day, or your time that you spend together and it's not you as your individual for me. I'm not spending any good quality time with myself or with others and
All of a sudden you're like, why am I in a bad mood? Why am I you know this? Why am I that and I'm like, we I haven't been outside in a day and a half, you know, I'll sort of walk into my car or something. And you're like, yeah, that's, that's a real thing, the way our society is set up now, it isn't, it isn't.
It's not good for us, the amount of information and access to information that we have, our brains and body have not caught up with that. So there's an obligation to consume, and then process and then put into action, a lot of the things that we learn, and it is taking its toll on us spending time, you know, on our own outside of these little strange little bubbles that we've got going on, that are based on reality. So is our lesson then, after this very upbeat episode, I didn't know we'd go here, but is our lesson man. Go go eat, go eat out, go go to them up for you take yourself on a date. And it's it's be be appreciative of your surroundings and appreciative of your time alone. This past weekend, my wife and I were out with another couple and we were talking about this about like, hey, once you've been married for a while, you have to remember to date your spouse again, right and do and I said and you have to remember to date yourself. Because so often, all all of your hobbies, all of your everything that you used to do just falls away because your quote too busy. And you're not if you just reshift where you spend your time on social media, or, like I'm going to take my when I'm done here, today, I'm taking my laptop and I'm gonna go to a coffee shop and I'm going to work for a couple of hours just because I need physical interact, I need to see other people. And so I'm just going to do that. And you know, just that in and of itself can just perk you up. Are you gonna wear like a hug me please t shirt or something like that? What is Valentine's Day today when we're recording this? So I'm gonna say yes. Hug me squeeze me love me or something? On a white t shirt with a magic marker.
Nothing creepy at all. Yeah, no, no, let's drive my white, windowless van to a coffee shop and just hang out. Yeah. Right. Alright, so the last part about this, and we kind of touched on it a little bit, was the idea of experiential dining. And I'm saying it because you can't pay
for you know, you just swerve and go right into the ditch if you try to say that word. So experiential dynamic is yes, it can be a pretty broad topic. So you can think of something is kind of fun. And over the top is like a medieval times. Or it can be something where it's, you know, maybe dinner at a comedy show. Or it can just be going to a themed restaurant, or whatever the case is. And I want to know, what's your Where do you land on that? Because historically, the places that have experiential dining, you think about like a Rainforest Cafe and, you know, that type of medieval times or whatever. Sometimes people don't enjoy that, like it's too much extra curriculars with their overstimulated kind of deal. Yeah.
So where do you land on that? You know, I was thinking about this. I think I'm kind of boring.
I take a poll here real fast. Oh, it's coming back. Heavy. 5050.
No, I think I said I was bored. So it's 100%.
I'm, so Lightspeed has a blog, talking about experiential dining, and they they see that experiential dining, like most common types of an I said experiential. So you know, our I need to push find the
soundtrack there laugh track, or multisensory dining. Which already just right off the bat, I'm like, no doubt about that.
theme restaurants. Yeah, like you said, the rain forest. There's a restaurant in Houston.
My visa, I think, I'll have to look up if I'm saying that correctly, which is beautifully designed. It's, it's,
it's Himalayan or Indian restaurant, and it's beautiful. I mean, it's amazing. That that I would, I would appreciate that. Okay. Something that is well designed, really.
aesthetically pleasing, not too loud. I like that. A lot. I like that a lot. Where we went for our board meeting I considered
in Houston. I consider that kind of a theme that's like colonial and it's really lovely. Dinner Theater.
game rooms at arcades. If it
It's a birthday party for you know, my nephew or something. I'm in speakeasies. I would love that. I think. And then they have on here intentionally rude staff. I have been to those before.
And they're I think they're a blast, especially when people don't know what they're getting into. And they're so P owed at the way they're smoking.
Yeah, that's, that's fun. I do feel like I can't really work at one of those places, except for the fetching food. But I think I've got being rude, pretty much nailed.
Well, no comment. But so before I talk about the evolution of experiential dining, I wanted to say there was a place in Chicago, I can't remember the name of it. But it was one of those places where they would be intentionally rude to you. And it was funny. And I remember going there. And with my parents, and maybe another set of parents, I think it was my mom or somebody else asked for a straw. And the surfer came back with like, 100 of them and just threw every single one. Like the old table was laughing. But so the evolution of experiential dining, I think, is shifting more towards nicer restaurants, that kind of are, provide a wow factor during the dining experience. And, you know, that's as simple as our, you know, doing a smoked old fashion. And it's got a little dome on it, and you take it off and the smoke was so I think it's, you know, that kind of stuff for some really high end restaurants like Alinea, in Chicago that, you know, does crazy stuff at the table, you know, the plates that come out, they're not plates, they're like handcrafted, right, you know, crate, you know, just really over the top and unusual. So I think that's, that's interesting. And I would love to see,
I would love to see restaurants that are not, you know, three Michelin star restaurants, be able to figure out what some version of that could look like for them and what people might enjoy about that without it being a tablet on the table. That doesn't mean Yeah. But I think that that can help get people back into the idea of going out to dinner or going out to lunch, because there's a fun little experience, but it doesn't overtake your time. Like you said, you don't want to go somewhere where it's like kitschy and, you know, you can't just enjoy your food because there's a theme theme. I don't I don't want a train going around. Or there's a restaurant around here. I won't say the name.
I don't know what they're after there. They've got like, antique lunchbox, boxes hanging everywhere and all I can think of is looking at Oh, yeah, that's that's cool. The bionic man. I you know, I remember those lunch boxes, and then you're like, how much dust is
you know? Yeah. So yeah, like to kitschy stuff. I'm hard too loud or too kitschy. I'm a hard pass. I mean, I'll have a pizza if it's my nephew's birthday, you know, or whenever I'm happy to go to those kinds of places, but
yeah, well, the loud thing is, that's a huge sticking point for me. And I don't mind like I like ambiance I like if you're going out to dinner with friends. I like like a lively restaurant, you know, where it's, it's hot and it's buzzing, it's there's stuff going on. But there's a threshold that crosses where like, if I'm out to dinner with my wife, or there's four of us there. I don't want to spend the entire night show him you know, I understand I've got to raise my voice a little bit because it's a louder environment, but like there definitely is a threshold where it goes from like a restaurant that's lively to Holy hell, I can't hear you or I can't say anything because I can't scream louder. i There are some restaurants that I said well, I won't go if it's if a customer you know if I'm entertaining somebody or something and they want to go to somewhere that's loud. I'll just say you know, sorry. I'd prefer not because I won't be able to hear you and it makes me feel like I need hearing aids or something sometime. But you know or else you just maybe sometimes people are just texting each other in loud restaurants are not really looking at email or Instagram texting each other because yeah, unless you got like a discount for every time you said well
that's what you need. Yeah, you know what bucket everybody puts $1 In every time somebody says what There you go. I don't miss that. I even when I was younger, and was in you know doing the bar thing and the clubs and like I never liked that just super crazy loud stuff. I always would rather opt for like you said like a speakeasy or like someplace that was a little more subdued where you could just have a conversation with someone because then you're just going in standing somewhere. And you're just standing next to the
person and you're not talking. It's like,
I can't hear you.
I'm gonna go get another Jaeger bomb. We'll be right back. Well, listen, I'm surprised this hasn't evolved more maybe it's the cost. But you know, there I've been to restaurants where there's that directional speakers. So in this part, it's it is loud if you're dancing or what have you, that's loud over there. But then you go sit down in this bar area, and you can still hear music, but it's not. You're not screaming over it. So I think that problem we've solved shortly after this. Everyone can send us thank you notes. Because Don't you know foodservice operations are going to take this to heart. Well, and I just wrote down our business plan for our new restaurant. That is no tipping. Where it's only one tops, not even two tops for two people. You just a single charity table.
Dine by yourself. Yep. And then also, it's very quiet in there. But there's a loud section. That's way far, far away. So there you go. That's yeah, it's a restaurant that can't
know what your dreams are. Bionic Man lunchboxes? Nothing, they served your food in the lunch box. Okay. Listen, if there's somewhere that brings you your food and the lunch box, not like a little bento box or whatever, like in a lunch box, I want to know about it. I will put that I will go there. I will. I will drop. If it's five hours away. I'm going, I'll go.
Yes, and I'll sit there at the next table over and wave to you. And in the lunchbox inside of the lunch boxes. They need to have a little fun fact about that kind of lunchbox if it's the bionic man. You know, they're going to talk about Steve. Oh, God, what was his last name? The Bionic man's last name? That was a little bit before my time.
Teletubbies
Yeah.
I thought you were gonna say you open up the lunchbox. And there's a screen in there. Just like to ask you a few questions.
All right, everyone. Well, that does it for our introductory episode back into season six. This was just some light stretching some yoga for us as podcasters getting back into it. And we will continue with two episodes per month. There'll be a mix of some guests and some topics that Carrie and I discuss industry related a little bit more seriously than this at times. But Carrie, it's great to be back doing this. We are We are some of the OGS for this in our industry to be recording podcasts from man way back when and the 28th back when and you believe it pre COVID Yes. Yeah, I know. We are. Dang it. We're the OG That's right. So this was left clips of this on our folks who were in wallets YouTube channel. So we'll have a link to that and then we'll we'll post some clips as well on social media like Instagram and even LinkedIn Welcome back to the foodservice for thought Podcast, the podcast connecting the foodservice industry. Carrie, it was great chatting with you. I will see you in a couple of weeks on our next episode. Adios